Vlashchenko: Today our guest is David Sakvarelidze.
Good evening. You recently said that the SBU, on the instructions of Paul Demchina, watching you. From your point of view that today represents this organization?
Sakvarelidze: I think that the problem is much more global than we think. This is not a conflict between authorities, it is rather a conflict of values and worldview. The new Ukraine and the particles of the new Ukraine, which is translucent, for example, in the NEB, in NACP, e-declarations. The company understands that, in spite of two serious anti-corruption revolution, in fact, the political elite has changed. And this political elite understands very well the logic of the work of bodies such as the Prosecutor’s office, SBU – unreformed bodies that need surgery, not therapy. A cancer patient treated with aspirin impossible. As for surveillance, I’m in this case I apologize – they were not people Demchina, although Demchina us actively engaged, in fact, every week goes to the AP, reports directly to the President and I. Kononenko, as they squeezed out of the Trepak, who wanted to change the system for the better. As for shadowing, I found out that it is military intelligence. I was surprised and I felt sorry. Why military intelligence I and other people who come on our platform “movement new forces.” We believe that there should be a platform for uniting political forces. The logic of the post-Soviet authorities to give up, along with a fractured political elite differently will not work. I, as a citizen of Ukraine and a person who is interested in the stability and security of this country, it would be much more comfortable if these people watched Russian spies, would control the anti-state separatist actions. This resource needs to be spent, not on me. I used to have for me for many years maintained control and surveillance. But, unfortunately, law enforcement is left quasi Kgbshnik bodies. They’re blackmailing people under surveillance, staff personal life, seamy side. The dismantling of this system is possible only through a proper political power.
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– Law enforcement agencies listen to all. The problem exists because it is a direct violation of the rights and freedoms of citizens.
– I love to translate everything into numbers, including public spending. On their travel, I spend a day 300-400 hryvnia, only for petrol. The SBU spends several times more. I.e. the day on me the state of Ukraine, for all the wrong teams, spends 1000 hryvnias, if not more. Let them be the money spent for the benefit of Ukraine and the protection of others. I can have absolutely different political views and criticize the government, but I would never do anything anti-Ukrainian and Vice versa, will work to strengthen the Ukrainian state. I think that they called me so I on his plot strengthened the position of the Ukrainian state, independence, etc. I understand that they see a threat in any well organized political force and very afraid.
– Possible that our American partners – intelligence, special services – will have access to wiretapping to be carried out by the NABU?
– Our officials in power are no different from Russian officials.This is a clear Russian prerogatives – the demonization of the entire West. The President and government asking for financial aid from international organizations that they helped in the reform, and then they make claims that someone is leaking information. If the us service is suddenly interested, why would she need Sytnik or Sakvarelidze? All superpowers have their own levers of influence. As for the wiretapping, they are all afraid, after this nonsense that we’ve seen on electronic declarations. Instead of saying, let’s test, let’s magnifies NABOO, and other organs, so they punish those people who are not a day has worked in the business, and instead declare reform a few million in cash at home – they say: close the effect all more or less effective bodies, so they don’t pose a threat to us. Two clans, the BPP and the NF decided that they will be forever in power, having no rating, and that the people 10 years has to tolerate them. The same wire which reaches NABOO, today passes through SBU. Ie today Poroshenko has the full influence over NABOO, and Kononenko on secret investigative actions that are conducted through the SBU, as Demchina all he merges. We, along with Sytnik flown to the United States, and usually the Americans are very careful towards the machinery. They just don’t convey. They can pass it in the same way as lethal weapon, to enhance the independence or defence of the state. They had cases, when it ended with a scandal: they bought this technique to different States, and it was then used against political opponents. So they are very careful with this. The Americans wanted to cooperate with the Prosecutor’s office, I remember. They came several times to Shokin, Stolarchuk, who has two years in charge of the investigation in Ukraine, and suggested that there are several large major cases, which can return several million dollars to the state budget, and the FBI was willing to help. Shokin and Stolyarchuk promised to give them the opportunity to work with our investigators, but then one of the prosecutors called Shokin that they do not share any information. It was that one of the Ukrainian companies using Latvian Bank accounts and offshore companies purchased 100 yachts. Employees of the FBI asked a question, whether checked they this company. They replied that they did not check because they do not have rights. Americans do not understand how investigators for particularly important cases of the GPU does not have the right to inspect such companies. So, for this company was someone influential, and they simply denied to do it. After that, the FBI representatives said that working with them is impossible because they have no motivation and no desire to really work. There is a risk that if the FBI or the British office will work with our authorities, they will “leak” information. We the FBI spent four hours in America, discussing the intensive care unit, the resumption of basic business working relationship with our partners in the USA, GPU and NABOO, to have appeared at least a minimum of trust. They just didn’t trust us, because there were cases when our sold information. We inaction of the Prosecutor’s office aim to encourage the development of the EU, because in cases of the same Arbuzov 55 million two years Ukraine did not send the documents to Latvia, and they took them in the budget. Instead Kurchenko today Kononenko, who also earns. The scheme has remained the same – no one was blocked.
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– Our law enforcement agencies are accused of what to the registry entered the case, but then it all dissipates.
– Today Ukraine needs a strong government vertical: the dictates of the rules States that will be felt in all directions. Today Chairman of the village of Kryzhanivka much more powerful on the ground than the President. There is a city in Cherkasy region. This town was left without heating. There are some MP, because of the commercial interests which had accumulated debt of 89 million and shut down in winter town. The Governor could do nothing and not actually doing. They were able to negotiate and to include, but the debt will accumulate. Where the Central government? These are the times when they have to fear that someone will not be afraid to suffer this outrage. I believe that Ukraine will simply collapse if we do not create the power of the state dictates.
– You are often criticized for the unfinished business in Odessa.
– I worked in Odessa for five months. Ukraine is the biggest country of Europe where you need a strong vertical state, the consensus among the political elites. The first thing we need to agree – we don’t want to get into Forbes magazine, and want to get in the history books, because the correct operation and the good results the official in Ukraine can be well secured. Second, we agree that in parallel starts a systemic reform in tax, customs, courts, prosecutors, the SBU, because it is impossible. There is today in Ukraine the head of the security agencies – not a millionaire? With whom should take an example to ordinary policemen or judges? None of the big oligarchs are not earned on the business which they were originally created from scratch. With regard to Odessa, then after my skirmishes with Shokin President wanted to do something to keep the balance, although he had the desire to get rid of me this summer. We sat in the room the three of us – myself, my President and my friend, a leader, and President. Saakashvili. There was this conversation: “You know, David, Mikheil will not be able to restore order in Odessa without an attorney who will understand what to do. There’ll be a normal guy, but Mike is not satisfied with his work – it’s not the pace necessary to Odessa today. But, you know, with some skepticism and distrust Shokin applies to your staff. Recommended you man, he does not miss on the regional Prosecutor Odessa region. And without him, nothing I can do because the Governor has no influence. I’m not pressuring you, but see it as an attempt to get rid of you. But you now make a decision – or help and go to Odessa, or remain…”. I have always been a loyal person, and I agreed.
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– And why didn’t you leave out the GPU?
– Because every day the boys began to bring criminal proceedings, they blackmailed that they would throw the drugs. This was done by the people of the so-called control Kononenko-Granovsky together with SBU. How could I leave them and run off somewhere? I was sent to Odessa, and there, it turns out that all the clans have some share and participation in the Odessa corrupt schemes and flows. It was the case for the HMO at one of the prosecutors, and we took this case. We went with a search warrant, seized several contracts, for which he earned two clans Kononenko and Martynenko, the scope of the President and the Prime Minister, is divided into two parts. A case for theft of petroleum products Kurchenko took to his Shokin. This, perhaps, Pashinsky they blackmailed and NF that they voted at the right time. It was about the theft of petroleum products Kurchenko cost of 450 million hryvnia. The case we brought back and reanimated episode that matter, where really you can get results. There is a vertical Turchinov. There were people Pashinsky, a man by the name Tishchenko, his wife worked Avakov and was involved in the alleged return of illicit assets. I think they’re just stupid to stole the oil. Money, after implementing this oil, was supposed to be on Deposit with the Bank, which also belonged to Tishchenko.
– Now they want to vote on the law on special confiscation.
– It’s a silly law, and he can not vote. We proposed a law on civil forfeiture. We were ready to declare a suspicion, the court gave several days to this Bank and this company that the money was returned back to the state Deposit. There was no money, we ran to the President, and there were already Kononenko, and said to be relieved in the case of the SCR from these crazy Georgians, because they can not control. After that, runs to him Pashinsky, but already there is a question about the election of a new government for approval of the new government, the votes. And Pashinsky, Avakov, and Turchinov can say that there will be no vote, if they and their environment will be a criminal case. The third case – “Privoz”. There is a man named Angert, he was a beholder crime boss in Odessa, Ukraine. He lives in London, and from there manages the Odessa, in different directions, there is Galanternik, looking to him over Odessa – Trukhanov, who was the representative of a group of bandits and assaults, which he conducted for some time. They agree with the AP, choose that separatist and jacket, the former bandit mayor of Odessa, and then get “Supply” – there was an illegal contract. We brought suspicion to the Directors, people Galanternik and Trukhanov, and became hysterical. We raised a couple of road tenders Trukhanov, for election fraud. The fourth case was at the Academy Kivalov. We for the first time in 20 years initiated a tax audit at the Academy Kivalov. In parallel, there was a war in the GPU, because the attorney General is my enemy official, and they was making us some business, some suspicion. In parallel, we opened a case of illegal privatization of the House of receptions on the French Boulevard. There was a Deputy from BPP Golubov, which is in front of the boy issued a fictitious company which for the money privatized this house. We referred the case to the court to bring this property back. There were still threads to the Deputy Goncharenko, who freaked out all the time, because his sister, his wife worked in the office, which was responsible for privatization of this House receptions. Interestingly, and Goncharenko, and Golubov, at one time, saved, Galanternik and Angert from the court. They are the blood and life depend on these people. And when we started to take seriously in the Odessa region, a decision was made to fire David. I’m not bragging – it’s just simple anatomy, how does the political system. I would, for example, of the prosecutors who were involved in these cases would praise and say that the state behind them and they moved on. I would not have passed the area potential separatists, who tomorrow may become Zakharchenko, for example. I am for a strong state, a state which is not regret, as the Ukraine I regret now, but I respect it.
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– Do you feel any bitterness that you lost in Odessa? Do you have a road map of how to take revenge?
– I think that we are not lost. We would have lost if we mingled with the elites who rule there, and in Kiev, including their owners. I rejoice that we do not become part of it. No corruption scandal associated with us. We won because we proved that we are on the light side of society. We are going to start very active actions, and raise all the regions of Ukraine, because you need a very serious change and crystallization of political elites. I don’t want such people who today are saying that the arrest of corrupt officials is a conspiracy against the Ukraine, remained in power and declared millions instead of reforms. They need to change. I don’t want these people to see and endure three more years, because every day we take and steal wealth. The 1.8% economic growth for Ukraine is a disaster.
– I wish you success. The most important thing – “to kill a dragon.”
– We have a few thousand. We will increase and multiply, in fact, very rapidly.